Sunday, March 22, 2015

Dialog, Debate or Debacle - Adventist pastor with ex adventist lesbian atheist?

for those without facebook .  text below

  • Lloyd Grolimund & Sarah M. Garey discuss lbgti topics. their call, nobody else may comment , including me. the dialog is entirely determined by these two human beings .. take it away Lloyd and sarah . ( Lloyd is awake but working, Sarah in the usa and prob asleep. the thread is open as long as the two humans want
  • Peter Veitch Lloyd Grolimund is the pastor of the new hope church in Sydney ( yes it actually is new and some of you may be aware of the live streaming initiative)

  • Peter Veitch Sarah M. Garey is one of our admin's at sda fight club and is a lesbian living in America , a wonderful lovely human being we look forward to seeing them both ... engage

  • Sarah M. Garey Thanks for the introductions, Peter.

    Hi Lloyd ! Pleased to meet you, and I'm happy you have agreed to have a conversation with me about this topic.
    ...See More
  • Lloyd Grolimund Nice to meet you Sarah M. Garey I also grew up in an Adventist home but left the Lord at about 13. At 26 the Lord found me and I have been walking with Him ever since. I am in my 25 th year of ministry. I am married to Lizca, we have 4 kids between us and a dog called Lucky,

    I am happy to talk. Although sometimes I may take some time to think about your questions or comments before an answer.
  • Sarah M. Garey ^That's fine! I will undoubtedly do the same.

    I was trying to think where we had left off in the conversation a while back.
    ...See More
  • Lloyd Grolimund So is your question - can one change one's sexual orientation?
  • Sarah M. Garey Sorry for the delay - just got home.

    My question is: what do you think/believe? Can one change their sexual orientation?
    ...See More
  • Lloyd Grolimund No, I don't think anyone can change their sexual orientation. It is impossible for a human to do so. I think that often people are born with gay and lesbian in their DNA, to change takes a miracle - so that is what I think is needed, a miracle - supernatural...

  • Sarah M. Garey So, in other words, the only way to change your orientation would be to ask God/Jesus to do it for you? Am I understanding you correctly?

    And if so, have you seen any instances where this has happened?
  • Lloyd Grolimund The only way I know to overcome sin that is so deep seated that it is a part of the very fabric of who we are is through a miracle. Homosexual behavior is not the only sin to fall into this category. Almost all of us have one or more sins that make up...See More
  • Sarah M. Garey What about the young people who pray throughout their childhood and youth to be "changed" and be made "normal" but find that they remain gay or lesbian? What is happening there?

    I heard one person explain that they were not praying for the right thing, but I reject that notion, because I don't think there are requirements on how you have to pray to get an answer.
    ...See More
  • Sarah M. Garey This is a test to see if people can see the thread:
  • Lloyd Grolimund I will get back to you Sarah M. Garey in couple of hours, still at work, sorry.
  • Sarah M. Garey ^No problem! We were having an issue with the mobile FB app, but we figured it out.
  • Peter Veitch Apologies for minor interruption. My fault entirely. I pinned the post for what I thought was easier access. Fb app hides pinned post. Profuse apologies ... Normal programming resumes .
  • Lloyd Grolimund It is difficult for me to answer that one Sarah M. Garey - as everyones fight against the weaknesses and sins in their own life is different. I have certainly fought some serious and long standing battles against some of my "DNA" weaknesses - and some ...See More
  • Sarah M. Garey You mean the young people I was referring to?

    Well, from their own accounts, they are saying that they prayed every single day for their orientation to change, and claimed Bible verses, and did everything that was suggested to them by their parents or
    ...See More
  • Lloyd Grolimund If overcoming sin was based on "how I feel" then I am not sure anyone would ever overcome anything. These sins that are ingrained deep inside us are usually experiences that give us pleasure. We like them and they keep drawing us back.

    But along with
    ...See More
  • Lloyd Grolimund If I am not answering your questions Sarah M. Garey - just keep pointing me back to what you are asking.

  • Lloyd Grolimund And one more thing about guilt. It cannot be assuaged by man made laws, accommodating friends, family or society. The support of the media, the acceptance of a sin by the population - none of these things will take the guilt away. They may hide it, cl...See More

  • Sarah M. Garey So if I'm understanding you correctly, you are saying that a person who despairs because they feel rejected by God and/or their family and/or church, and who doesn't experience any change in who they are (their orientation), is relying on how they feel...See More
  • Sarah M. Garey I also wanted to go over the numbered points you mentioned above.

    1. Is overcoming this "sin" more difficult than others? What are some other "sins" that you would consider as difficult to overcome?
    ...See More
  • Lloyd Grolimund I think we all rely heavily on how we feel. It is human to do so, I know I do. Are those who feel despair because they feel rejected by God and/or their family and/or church, and who don't experience any change in who they are (their orientation), rely...See More
  • Lloyd Grolimund The numbered points:

    1. Yes, I would consider overcoming homosexuality as difficult as overcoming any sin there is. I say this for no other reason than my personal observation of the agony and trial I have seen in those who have to deal with it. Are t
    ...See More
  • Lloyd Grolimund 4. Sometimes Jesus does take the desire for sin away, but in my experience, rarely. Why? Well I am not exactly sure on this. But I have thought that maybe it is because it takes us a long time to get in to the sin, so maybe it takes us a long journey t...See More
  • Lloyd Grolimund 5. It's very easy to slip back to where you once were if you don't stay very close to Jesus. I know - I have done exactly that many times!

  • Lloyd Grolimund And I don't know how much I rate these change from gay to straight programs. In my opinion many of them just end up doing more damage. I am for leading people to Jesus, showing them Him, letting Him lead them out. It is far safer than some hair brained psychological thing.
  • Lloyd Grolimund I am very very seriously into the supernatural answer. If its not there, then you have nothing to worry about, if it is - then Jesus will lead you out of the sin, whatever it is...
  • Sarah M. Garey I like the way you think about the reparative therapy thing - very encouraging! I did a lot of research on that when I thought it could be an option, and concluded that it was a rip off and would do more harm than good.

    I'm also very glad to hear th
    ...See More

  • Lloyd Grolimund I was wondering when that question would come up. I think it is the crux of the whole discussion.

    For me the answer is a simple one - because the Bible says it is.
  • Sarah M. Garey ^Assumed you would say that.

    Could you unpack that for me? Where specifically does it say this?
  • Lloyd Grolimund You mean, where does it specifically say that it is wrong to participate in homosexual practices?
  • Sarah M. Garey ^Yes

  • Lloyd Grolimund Ok,let me get to this soon, I am at work and it is coming into Sabbath here, please give me until Sunday?
  • Sarah M. Garey Sure! Happy Sabbath btw
  • Lloyd Grolimund Thanks, you too
  • Lloyd Grolimund Hi Sarah M. Garey, hope you had a great weekend. Here are the NT texts to start with:

    Romans 1:18-32